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morganlives
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Posted on
2/9/2005 8:01:55 AM
Hi Jazztrumpet solo forum,
Can anyone help me in applying the diminished scale to my improvisation?
I understand the concept of half step and whole half step diminished scales, but so far am having difficulty in knowing which of the 3 scales to use over what chord.
Q1. is there a single diminished scale you can use over a ii-v7-i progressio? if so what one would you use over for example. D- G7 Cmaj.
Q2. Say you have a 8 bar modal type phrase, A-. Which diminished scale would you use over that?
bye the way did I mention Morgan lives
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fred
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Posted on
2/9/2005 9:18:12 AM
Hello,
You can use diminished scale principally on dominant chords.
For example, if you have a G7 you can you the diminished scale starting on B with whole step: B, C#, D, E, F, G, Ab, Bb.
This scale will work very good on a G7b9#11 (or a G13b9). If you have for example the progression D-7 | G7b9 |CM7 it will work very good because E (the 13th of G7b9) is the 3rd of CM7.
When you have minor cadenza, for example D-7b5 | G7b9 | C-7, you would probably not use the diminished scale, because in that case G7b9 is in fact a G7b9b13 (if you want to be specific).
If you want to learn to use diminished scales very good, I recommend that you hear Randy Brecker (or Michael) they play them very often, and always “in a good manner”
P.S.: You certainly know the more famous pattern with diminished scales: try this:
D E F G E F D E | F G Ab Bb G Ab F G | Ab Bb B C# Bb B Ab Bb etc... Listen to Dave Douglas !
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josh
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Posted on
2/10/2005 12:48:05 AM
the dim. scale that starts with the half step is used for 7 chords and the scale starting with the whole step is used for minor chords.
you might first try making sure you are very familiar with the scales by being able to run them up and down over a couple octaves. this, however, with teach you nothing about using them. you could learn the tried and true patterns or invent your own (this is easy since it's such a symmetrical scale). all this is to become more familiar with the scales and patterns. but to learn to use them properly, in my opinion, it's best to refer to the recordings. bird used the dim. scale a lot. kenny dorham used it all the time. he also used the diminished/wholetone or altered scale just as much. learn a solo off a record on a tune that has some minor ii - V's. this is how i first learned how to use the scale. once you feel comfortable using diminished and altered ideas you'll have many more possibilities on ii - V's. try kenny dorham's solo on "i love you" (found on this site) any recording of him playing "woody n you" (like max + 4 or scandia story).
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